Hampshire County Council
Councillors:
78
Wards:
76
Committees:
49
Meetings (2025):
165
Meetings (2024):
156
Meeting
Hampshire 2050, Corporate Services and Resources Select Committee - Hampshire
Meeting Times
Scheduled Time
Start:
Thursday, 6th March 2025
10:00 AM
Thursday, 6th March 2025
10:00 AM
End:
Thursday, 6th March 2025
2:00 PM
Thursday, 6th March 2025
2:00 PM
Meeting Status
Status:
Confirmed
Confirmed
Date:
06 Mar 2025
06 Mar 2025
Location:
Ashburton Hall, Elizabeth II Court, The Castle, Winchester
Ashburton Hall, Elizabeth II Court, The Castle, Winchester
Meeting Attendees
Committee Member
Committee Member
Liberal Democrats Deputy
Liberal Democrats Spokesperson
Councillor Adrian Collett
Present, as expected
Agenda
1
Apologies for absence
To receive any apologies for absence.
Minutes
Apologies were received from Councillors Tanya Park and Patricia Stallard. Councillors Jackie Porter and Andrew Joy attended as the respective deputies.
2
Declarations of interest
All Members who believe they have a Disclosable Pecuniary Interest in any matter to be considered at the meeting must declare that interest and, having regard to Part 3 Paragraph 1.5 of the County Council's Members’ Code of Conduct, leave the meeting while the matter is discussed, save for exercising any right to speak in accordance with Paragraph 1.6 of the Code. Furthermore all Members with a Personal Interest in a matter being considered at the meeting should consider, having regard to Part 5, Paragraph 4 of the Code, whether such interest should be declared, and having regard to Part 5, Paragraph 5 of the Code, consider whether it is appropriate to leave the meeting while the matter is discussed, save for exercising any right to speak in accordance with the Code.
Minutes
Members were mindful that where they believed they had a Disclosable Pecuniary Interest in any matter considered at the meeting they must declare that interest at the time of the relevant debate and, having regard to the circumstances described in Part 3, Paragraph 1.5 of the County Council's Members' Code of Conduct, leave the meeting while the matter was discussed, save for exercising any right to speak in accordance with Paragraph 1.6 of the Code. Furthermore Members were mindful that where they believed they had a Non-Pecuniary interest in a matter being considered at the meeting they considered whether such interest should be declared, and having regard to Part 5, Paragraph 5 of the Code, considered whether it was appropriate to leave the meeting whilst the matter was discussed, save for exercising any right to speak in accordance with the Code.
3
Minutes of previous meeting held on 23 January 2025
To confirm the minutes of the previous meeting held on 23 January 2025.
Attachments:
Minutes
The minutes of the last meeting were reviewed and agreed
4
Deputations
To receive any deputations notified under Standing Order 12.
Minutes
Deputations were received from the following, who all spoke against the recommendations:
- Heather Blades, Alfie Nelson and Jackie Davis
- Clare Martin
- Sara Willoughby and Kevin Harcombe
- Jennifer McCavour and 2 students from local schools
- Lin Gell
- Pamela Charlwood
County Councillors Lesley Meenaghan, Mike Ford, Pal Hayre and Joanne Burton also attended to speak as local Members.
The Chairman thanked the deputations for attending to speak and sharing their experiences with the Committee.
- Heather Blades, Alfie Nelson and Jackie Davis
- Clare Martin
- Sara Willoughby and Kevin Harcombe
- Jennifer McCavour and 2 students from local schools
- Lin Gell
- Pamela Charlwood
County Councillors Lesley Meenaghan, Mike Ford, Pal Hayre and Joanne Burton also attended to speak as local Members.
The Chairman thanked the deputations for attending to speak and sharing their experiences with the Committee.
5
Chairman's Announcements
To receive any announcements the Chairman may wish to make.
Minutes
The Chairman confirmed that Members had received correspondence from Eric Bidwell who did not support the proposed change of use of Stubbington Study Centre site.
The Chairman had also received correspondence from Derek Kelson who did not support the closure of the Stubbington Study Centre.
The Chairman had also received correspondence from Derek Kelson who did not support the closure of the Stubbington Study Centre.
6
Proposals relating to the provision of a specialist secure welfare children's home - Less Exempt Appendices
To consider a report of the Deputy Chief Executive and Director of Hampshire 2050 and Director of Children’s Services regarding proposals relating to the provision of a specialist secure welfare children’s home, due to be considered at the Cabinet meeting on 18 March 2025.
Attachments:
- Document 2025-03-06 1 H2050SC Cover Report - Proposals relating to the provision of a specialist secure welfare children's home 25 Feb 2025
- Document 2025-03-06 1i H2050SCCabt Proposals relating to the provision of a specialist secure welfare children's home-2025-03-18-Cabinet 25 Feb 2025
- Document Appendix 1 List of Providers and Location Map used by Hampshire Schools for Outdoor Education Activities 25 Feb 2025
- Document Appendix 2 Location Map and Plan for Stubbington 25 Feb 2025
- Document Appendix 3 Location map of schools that visit Stubbington 25 Feb 2025
- Document Appendix 6 Stubbington Study Centre Consultation 25 Feb 2025
- Document Appendix 7 QA-SpecialistSecureChildrensWelfareHome 25 Feb 2025
- Document Appendix 8 EIA Stubbington Study Centre Consultation 25 Feb 2025
- Document Appendix 9 Consultation Data Report Overall Responses 25 Feb 2025
- Document Appendix 10 Consultation Data Report Demographic Split 25 Feb 2025
- Document Appendix 11 Consultation Data Report Key Analysis Groups 25 Feb 2025
- Document Letter from Chairman of the Hampshire 2050 Corporate Services and Resources Select Committee 25 Feb 2025
Minutes
The Select Committee pre-scrutinised a report going to Cabinet (item 6 in the minute book) on the provision of a specialist secure welfare children’s home in Stubbington, Fareham.
During questions of officers, the following points were clarified:
- There were no current plans to invest further in Stubbington Study Centre
- An Asset of Community Value was being determined by Fareham Borough Council but the decision by Cabinet was around repurposing the site as opposed to selling it.
- Stubbington did not contribute to the Outstanding OFSTED of Children’s Services and was a separate non statutory service. Swanwick was inspected annually by OFSTED.
- 25-30% of children placed at Swanwick were Hampshire children, and it was important to note that other Hampshire children were placed in other local authority secure homes.
- At any one time up to 40 local authorities are looking to place children in secure units with only one or two beds available.
- There was no alternative site for Stubbington Study Centre should the proposals be refused.
- The Government grant did not cover the purchase of land to facilitate a new site, but timescales and need was a driver for finding a facility.
- Hampshire had not put in a bid for the grant but had been approached due to the current relationship and Outstanding rating of Swanwick Lodge.
- The recommendation was based on the proposals around Swanwick Lodge and it was not possible to say whether the future of Stubbington Study Centre would have been up for discussion in any event.
- Although Swanwick is the secure home for the south region, because of demand and need, children placed a Swanwick come from across England and Wales .
- The financial figures in the exempt part of the pack could not be shared due to the commercial sensitivity – particularly around Stubbington Study Centre, which was in a competitive market. This was the view of legal officers, including the Monitoring Officer and disclosing it would be prejudicial.
- Swanwick Lodge was built around 1995/1996 and was coming to the end of its life, but would remain operative until the new building was complete in 2030.
At this stage, an amendment was proposed by Councillor Graham Burgess and seconded by Councillor Rob Mocatta as follows:
· Commend Officers for their hard work on identifying sites, emphasises the committee recognises the challenges of identifying any alternative sites within the time frame and the criteria prescribed by Government
· Recognise the pressing need for a secure children’s home to support Hampshire’s most vulnerable children
· Recommends Cabinet ask officers to review any additional sites which may become available as a consequence of recent or upcoming decisions
· Recommends Cabinet ask officers to approach district and borough council to see if they have any land holding which may offer a suitable site
· Recommends Cabinet request an extension of time from Department of Education to enable consideration of any alternative site
Councillor Malcolm Wallace then proposed an additional bullet point, seconded by Councillor Prad Bains as follows:
· The Select Committee recommends that Cabinet requests Officers to work with Stubbington Study Centre on a long-term business plan.
This was supported by Councillors Burgess and Mocatta to be incorporated as part of the original amendment.
In debate, Members felt that not enough work had been done on finding an suitable alternative and more research could be done. Some Councillors shared how work on the project could and should have started much sooner and in a more transparent way.
Members acknowledged the demand and importance of premises like Swanwick Lodge, but also recognised the benefits of Stubbington Study Centre to thousands of children each year.
The full amendment was voted upon and supported by the Committee and was therefore carried.
RESOLVED:
That the Select Committee::
Commends Officers for their hard work on identifying sites, emphasises the Committee recognises the challenges of identifying any alternative sites within the time frame and the criteria prescribed by Government
Recognises the pressing need for a secure children’s home to support Hampshire’s most vulnerable children
Recommends Cabinet ask officers to review any additional sites which may become available as a consequence of recent or upcoming decisions
Recommends Cabinet ask officers to approach district and borough councils to see if they have any land holding which may offer a suitable site
Recommends Cabinet request an extension of time from Department of Education to enable consideration of any alternative site
Recommends that Cabinet requests Officers to work with Stubbington study centre on a long-term business plan
During questions of officers, the following points were clarified:
- There were no current plans to invest further in Stubbington Study Centre
- An Asset of Community Value was being determined by Fareham Borough Council but the decision by Cabinet was around repurposing the site as opposed to selling it.
- Stubbington did not contribute to the Outstanding OFSTED of Children’s Services and was a separate non statutory service. Swanwick was inspected annually by OFSTED.
- 25-30% of children placed at Swanwick were Hampshire children, and it was important to note that other Hampshire children were placed in other local authority secure homes.
- At any one time up to 40 local authorities are looking to place children in secure units with only one or two beds available.
- There was no alternative site for Stubbington Study Centre should the proposals be refused.
- The Government grant did not cover the purchase of land to facilitate a new site, but timescales and need was a driver for finding a facility.
- Hampshire had not put in a bid for the grant but had been approached due to the current relationship and Outstanding rating of Swanwick Lodge.
- The recommendation was based on the proposals around Swanwick Lodge and it was not possible to say whether the future of Stubbington Study Centre would have been up for discussion in any event.
- Although Swanwick is the secure home for the south region, because of demand and need, children placed a Swanwick come from across England and Wales .
- The financial figures in the exempt part of the pack could not be shared due to the commercial sensitivity – particularly around Stubbington Study Centre, which was in a competitive market. This was the view of legal officers, including the Monitoring Officer and disclosing it would be prejudicial.
- Swanwick Lodge was built around 1995/1996 and was coming to the end of its life, but would remain operative until the new building was complete in 2030.
At this stage, an amendment was proposed by Councillor Graham Burgess and seconded by Councillor Rob Mocatta as follows:
· Commend Officers for their hard work on identifying sites, emphasises the committee recognises the challenges of identifying any alternative sites within the time frame and the criteria prescribed by Government
· Recognise the pressing need for a secure children’s home to support Hampshire’s most vulnerable children
· Recommends Cabinet ask officers to review any additional sites which may become available as a consequence of recent or upcoming decisions
· Recommends Cabinet ask officers to approach district and borough council to see if they have any land holding which may offer a suitable site
· Recommends Cabinet request an extension of time from Department of Education to enable consideration of any alternative site
Councillor Malcolm Wallace then proposed an additional bullet point, seconded by Councillor Prad Bains as follows:
· The Select Committee recommends that Cabinet requests Officers to work with Stubbington Study Centre on a long-term business plan.
This was supported by Councillors Burgess and Mocatta to be incorporated as part of the original amendment.
In debate, Members felt that not enough work had been done on finding an suitable alternative and more research could be done. Some Councillors shared how work on the project could and should have started much sooner and in a more transparent way.
Members acknowledged the demand and importance of premises like Swanwick Lodge, but also recognised the benefits of Stubbington Study Centre to thousands of children each year.
The full amendment was voted upon and supported by the Committee and was therefore carried.
RESOLVED:
That the Select Committee::
Commends Officers for their hard work on identifying sites, emphasises the Committee recognises the challenges of identifying any alternative sites within the time frame and the criteria prescribed by Government
Recognises the pressing need for a secure children’s home to support Hampshire’s most vulnerable children
Recommends Cabinet ask officers to review any additional sites which may become available as a consequence of recent or upcoming decisions
Recommends Cabinet ask officers to approach district and borough councils to see if they have any land holding which may offer a suitable site
Recommends Cabinet request an extension of time from Department of Education to enable consideration of any alternative site
Recommends that Cabinet requests Officers to work with Stubbington study centre on a long-term business plan
7
EXCLUSION OF THE PRESS AND PUBLIC
To resolve that the public be excluded from the meeting during the following
item of business, as it is likely, in view of the nature of the business to be transacted or the nature of the proceedings, that if members of the public were present during this item there would be disclosure to them of exempt information within Paragraph 3 of Part 1 of Schedule 12A to the Local Government Act 1972, and further that in all the circumstances of the cases, the public interest in maintaining the exemption outweighs the public interest in disclosing the information, for the reasons set out in the exempt appendices.
item of business, as it is likely, in view of the nature of the business to be transacted or the nature of the proceedings, that if members of the public were present during this item there would be disclosure to them of exempt information within Paragraph 3 of Part 1 of Schedule 12A to the Local Government Act 1972, and further that in all the circumstances of the cases, the public interest in maintaining the exemption outweighs the public interest in disclosing the information, for the reasons set out in the exempt appendices.
Minutes
The meeting did not go into exempt session and therefore there was no requirement to move the resolution to exclude the press and public.
8
Proposals relating to the provision of a specialist secure welfare children's home - Exempt Appendices
To consider exempt appendices in relation to Item 6 on the agenda.
Attachments:
- Document Appendix 4 EXEMPT Confidential appendix on site selection 25 Feb 2025
- Document Appendix 5 EXEMPT Confidential appendix on financial information 25 Feb 2025
Minutes
The exempt appendices were considered alongside the open report at the meeting.
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