Winchester City Borough Council
Councillors:
45
Wards:
16
Committees:
67
Meetings (2025):
83
Meetings (2024):
100
Meeting
Audit and Governance Committee - Winchester City
Meeting Times
Scheduled Time
Start:
Thursday, 9th November 2023
6:30 PM
Thursday, 9th November 2023
6:30 PM
End:
Thursday, 9th November 2023
10:30 PM
Thursday, 9th November 2023
10:30 PM
Actual Time
Started:
Thursday, 9th November 2023
6:30 PM
Thursday, 9th November 2023
6:30 PM
Finished:
Thursday, 9th November 2023
2:15 AM
Thursday, 9th November 2023
2:15 AM
Meeting Status
Status:
Confirmed
Confirmed
Date:
09 Nov 2023
09 Nov 2023
Location:
Walton Suite, Guildhall, Winchester and streamed live on YouTube at www.youtube.com/winchestercc
Walton Suite, Guildhall, Winchester and streamed live on YouTube at www.youtube.com/winchestercc
Meeting Attendees
Committee Member
Guest
Cabinet Member for Healthy Communities
Guest
Leader of the Conservative Group
Guest
Deputy Leader of the Conservative Group
Guest
Deputy Leader and Cabinet Member for Finance and Transformation
Agenda
1
Apologies
To record the names of apologies given.
Minutes
Apologies for absence were received from Councillors V Achwal and Miller, with Councillors Eve and Bolton attending as standing deputy members.
2
Disclosure of Interests
To receive any disclosure of interests from Members and Officers in matters to be discussed.
Note: Councillors are reminded of their obligations to declare disclosable pecuniary interests, personal and/or prejudicial interests in accordance with legislation and the Council’s Code of Conduct.
Note: Councillors are reminded of their obligations to declare disclosable pecuniary interests, personal and/or prejudicial interests in accordance with legislation and the Council’s Code of Conduct.
Minutes
There were no disclosures of interest made.
3
Chairperson's announcements
Minutes
There were no announcements made.
4
To note the Audit & Governance work programme 2023/24
Attachments:
- Document A&G work programme Oct 23 update 01 Nov 2023
Minutes
RESOLVED:
That the contents of the work programme be noted.
That the contents of the work programme be noted.
5
Minutes of the previous meeting held on 11 October 2023
Attachments:
- Document Minutes , 11/10/2023 Audit and Governance Committee 01 Nov 2023
Minutes
In response to questions, the Corporate Head of Finance advised that there was no further update regarding timings of the external audit.
RESOLVED:
That the minutes of the previous meeting held on 11 October 2023 be agreed as a correct record.
RESOLVED:
That the minutes of the previous meeting held on 11 October 2023 be agreed as a correct record.
6
Public Participation
– To receive and note questions asked and statements made from members of the public on matters which fall within the remit of the Committee..
NB members of the public are required to register with Democratic Services three clear working days before the meeting (see below for further details).
NB members of the public are required to register with Democratic Services three clear working days before the meeting (see below for further details).
Minutes
Patrick Davies spoke regarding report AG117 as summarised briefly below.
He expressed concern about the apparent lack of clarity to the use of informal working groups in the constitution and any terms of reference. He did not believe that the use of informal working groups represented good practice as it lacked openness and transparency. He referenced the Claer Lloyd-Jones review report into the Silver Hill decision which had included some criticism of the council’s use of informal groups. He also queried proposed changes to the role of the Winchester Town Forum, particularly with regard to planning issues.
Councillor Power thanked Mr Davies for his comments which would be considered under the relevant item below.
He expressed concern about the apparent lack of clarity to the use of informal working groups in the constitution and any terms of reference. He did not believe that the use of informal working groups represented good practice as it lacked openness and transparency. He referenced the Claer Lloyd-Jones review report into the Silver Hill decision which had included some criticism of the council’s use of informal groups. He also queried proposed changes to the role of the Winchester Town Forum, particularly with regard to planning issues.
Councillor Power thanked Mr Davies for his comments which would be considered under the relevant item below.
7
Treasury management mid-year report 23/24 (AG119)
Attachments:
- Document AG119 - WCC Treasury Management mid-year report 2023-24 01 Nov 2023
Minutes
Daniel O’Rourke (Hampshire County Council) introduced the report and responded to Members’ questions thereon.
Members were reminded to attend the annual Arlingclose briefing session, the next of which to be held on 13 November 2023.
RESOLVED:
That the Treasury management mid-year report be noted.
Members were reminded to attend the annual Arlingclose briefing session, the next of which to be held on 13 November 2023.
RESOLVED:
That the Treasury management mid-year report be noted.
8
Final report & pay policy statement 24/25 (AG103)
Attachments:
- Document AG103 Final report and pay policy statement 24-25 PDF version to retain tracking 01 Nov 2023
Minutes
The Service Lead - Human Resources introduced the report and responded to members’ questions on the following:
a) The impact of the change to staffing grade points agreed with effect from April 2023.
b) The frequency of the use of market supplements.
c) The monitoring of the use of contractors and consultants. It was agreed that an additional section on this point be included in the next annual workforce report.
d) Confirmation that the council was abiding with the requirements of the living wage accreditation.
RECOMMENDED (TO COUNCIL):
That the Pay Policy Statement for the financial year 2024/25 be adopted as set out in report AG103.
a) The impact of the change to staffing grade points agreed with effect from April 2023.
b) The frequency of the use of market supplements.
c) The monitoring of the use of contractors and consultants. It was agreed that an additional section on this point be included in the next annual workforce report.
d) Confirmation that the council was abiding with the requirements of the living wage accreditation.
RECOMMENDED (TO COUNCIL):
That the Pay Policy Statement for the financial year 2024/25 be adopted as set out in report AG103.
9
Q2 Governance Monitoring 23/24 (AG116)
Attachments:
- Document AG116 Q2 Governance monitoring 01 Nov 2023
Minutes
The Senior Policy and Programme Manager introduced the report and together with the Corporate Head of Finance responded to members’ questions on the following:
a) The climate change overdue action with a target date of 30 September had been completed since the report was published, and good progress was being made on the remaining three outstanding actions which were due to be completed by the end of the year.
b) Provided assurance that the residual risk level assessment regarding CR007 was correct.
In response to questions regarding the TC25 programme, Councillor Cutler stated that the process had begun, and proposals would be brought forward to the relevant committees when appropriate. The Corporate Head of Finance advised that further information would be included in the Medium Term Financial Strategy report to be submitted to Cabinet on 21 November and Scrutiny Committee on 22 November 2023.
RESOLVED:
That the content of the report, including the progress against the internal audit management actions be noted.
a) The climate change overdue action with a target date of 30 September had been completed since the report was published, and good progress was being made on the remaining three outstanding actions which were due to be completed by the end of the year.
b) Provided assurance that the residual risk level assessment regarding CR007 was correct.
In response to questions regarding the TC25 programme, Councillor Cutler stated that the process had begun, and proposals would be brought forward to the relevant committees when appropriate. The Corporate Head of Finance advised that further information would be included in the Medium Term Financial Strategy report to be submitted to Cabinet on 21 November and Scrutiny Committee on 22 November 2023.
RESOLVED:
That the content of the report, including the progress against the internal audit management actions be noted.
10
Review of the Winchester City Council Constitution 2023 (AG117)
Attachments:
- Document AG117 Constitution review report v2 01 Nov 2023
- Document Part 1 Summary and Explanation Intro 01 Nov 2023
- Document Part1Part1.2. Interpretation of Terms WinchesterCityCouncilConstitution highlight 01 Nov 2023
- Document Article 1 The Constitution 01 Nov 2023
- Document Article 2 Members of the Council 01 Nov 2023
- Document Article 3 Members of the public 01 Nov 2023
- Document Article 4 The Full Council 01 Nov 2023
- Document Article 5 Chairing the Council 01 Nov 2023
- Document Article 6 Cabinet 01 Nov 2023
- Document Article 7 Overview and Scrutiny Committees 01 Nov 2023
- Document Article 8 Regulatory and Non-Executive Decision-Making 01 Nov 2023
- Document Article 9 Audit and Governance Committee 01 Nov 2023
- Document Article 10 Area Committees and Forums 01 Nov 2023
- Document Article 11 Joint Arrangements 01 Nov 2023
- Document Article 12 Officers 01 Nov 2023
- Document Article 13 Decision Making 01 Nov 2023
- Document Article 14 Finance Contracts and Legal Matters 01 Nov 2023
- Document Article 15 Review and Revision of the Constitution 01 Nov 2023
- Document Article 16 Suspension Interpretation and the Publication of the Constitution 01 Nov 2023
- Document Part 3.1 - Responsibilities for Functions 01 Nov 2023
- Document Part 3.2 The Cabinet its Committees and the Portfolio Holder Structure 01 Nov 2023
- Document Part 3.3 The Regulatory Committees and Other Non-Executive Decision Making Committees 01 Nov 2023
- Document Part 3.4 The Scheme of Delegation to Officers 01 Nov 2023
- Document Budget Council meeting procedure 01 Nov 2023
- Document Part 4.1 - Council Meeting Procedure Rules 01 Nov 2023
- Document Part 4.2 - Cabinet Procedure Rules 01 Nov 2023
- Document Part 4.3 - Overview and Scrutiny Procedure Rules 01 Nov 2023
- Document Part 4.4 Access to Information Procedure Rules 01 Nov 2023
- Document Part 4.5 - Budget and Policy Framework Procedure Rules 01 Nov 2023
- Document Part 4.6 Financial Procedure Rules 01 Nov 2023
- Document Part 4.7 - Contracts Procedure Rules 01 Nov 2023
- Document Part 5.2 Protocol for Member Officer Relations 01 Nov 2023
Minutes
The Monitoring Officer introduced the report and outlined the process in bringing forward the amendments to the Constitution to date which had included nine meetings of the Constitution Working Party (CWP). She confirmed that corrections to the formatting would be undertaken prior to consideration at Council on 30 November 2023. In addition, improvements to the navigation of the document, such as the inclusion of hyperlinks and an “intelligent” contents page would be introduced prior to the revised Constitution being officially published.
At the invitation of the Chairperson, Councillors Wallace, Read, Brook and Horrill addressed the meeting as summarised briefly below.
Councillor Wallace
He spoke as a member of the CWP which he believed had adopted a positive approach and achieved consensus about a great deal of the constitution. He expressed concern about the frequency of full Council meetings and in particular the recent long gap due to a Council meeting being cancelled. He welcomed the proposal to include feedback from Councillors on outside bodies to Council meetings and the clarification of the procedure regarding member and public participation at Cabinet meetings. In general, he hoped that the amendments proposed would improve the operation of the Constitution in practice.
Councillor Horrill
She welcomed the opportunity of being a member of the CWP and endorsed the commitment to providing a briefing session to aid understanding of the Constitution by both councillors and officers. She welcomed the proposals set out in paragraphs 12.6 and 12.18 of the report. She raised three questions/points – a) Queried whether Article 14 required updating to reflect that contracts under £10k should be recorded in writing; b) Expressed disappointment regarding that a date for completion was not included in paragraph 14.2 of the report; c) Sought assurance that the version of the amended Constitution to be presented to Council would be corrected to remove typographical mistakes and incorrect formatting.
Councillor Read
With regard to the West of Waterlooville Forum he believed the Constitution should stipulate that meetings were held in person as he considered virtual meetings excluded some members of the public. He emphasised that Forum covered a cross-boundary area and so was different to the other two development fora. He also requested that the Winchester membership be comprised of councillors from those wards covered by the development area. With regard to the Joint West of Waterlooville MDA Planning Committee, he expressed concern that no meetings had been held in the previous three years with all decisions being taken by officers under their delegated powers. He believed that this was despite the parish council requesting that a decision be made by the joint committee on regular occasions.
Councillor Brook
She supported the comments made by Councillor Read. As chairperson of Scrutiny Committee, she welcomed the proposal for the Monitoring Officer to use her discretion as to which committee was appropriate for pre-scrutiny consideration. She believed it was essential that key decisions were subject to pre-scrutiny.
The Monitoring Officer responded to the comments made regarding the Joint West of Waterlooville MDA Planning Committee confirming that the information she had been given by officers was different to that presented by Councillor Read. She said she would request further clarification from officers regarding the officer delegations exercised. As there appeared to remain a degree of uncertainty on this matter, Councillor Power suggested that Councillor Brook forward the relevant minutes of the parish council so it could be examined further.
The Monitoring Officer responded to other comments made by councillors and during the public participation period above. She confirmed that use of informal working groups was standard procedure widely adopted by local authorities and legally permitted. She agreed that a definition of an informal working group could be included in the amended Constitution.
With regard to work on the new model code of conduct, she confirmed that this would commence with the CWP in the new year.
The Committee then considered the contents of the amended Constitution in detail and the following points were raised and responded to by the Monitoring Officer and the Corporate Head of Finance. In addition, the Cabinet Member for Community and Engagement and the Cabinet Member for Finance and Performance also responded where appropriate.
a) The proposal that a recommended time limit (but not a guillotine) of three hours for council meetings be introduced. However, the majority of the CWP had not supported this proposal but had approved the suggestion that full Council meetings start at the earlier time of 6.30pm.
b) The use of the word “may” rather than “will” in the first sentence of Part 1.2. The Monitoring Officer explained the wording was from the Model Constitution however it was agreed amendment be considered further.
c) Part 4.4, paragraph 22.5 – clarification was requested on the use of the exempt definition and councillors access to exempt information.
d) The practical operation by the Monitoring Officer of the new wording proposed by the CWP in Article 7 in connection with the Forward Plan. Members believed that the 28 days’ notice provided in the current forward plan might not be sufficient for other committees to plan their work programme. However, it was suggested this could be addressed outside of changes to the Constitution, for example by provision of clearer work programmes and further consideration of the scheduling of meetings.
e) Clarification of the different status of the Winchester Town Forum as a formal meeting with budget setting authority, whereas the three current development fora were informal meetings.
f) Confirmation that the operation of the Joint West of Waterlooville MDA Planning Committee would be considered further by officers following concerns raised. However, no changes to the constitution as drafted were required.
g) Confirmation that the full proposed Budget Council meeting procedure would not be included in the recommended amendments to the constitution.
h) The Monitoring Officer confirmed that full Council meetings were only cancelled due to a lack of business in exceptional circumstances. Some concern was expressed about the long period of time between some full Council meetings. It was emphasised that both public and councillors had the right to speak at other meetings, including Cabinet.
i) A request that consideration be given to using the same process for members of the public questions as councillor questions.
j) There was lengthy discussion regarding the process for submitting an alternative budget and the time available for this to be prepared by councillors. The Monitoring Officer emphasised that the budget proposals were submitted for consideration by both the Scrutiny Committee and Cabinet several weeks prior to consideration at full Council. The Corporate Head of Finance confirmed that as Section 151 officer, she must be satisfied that the alternative budget met the statutory requirements and was deliverable within sufficient time to allow for 6 clear days prior to the budget meeting. The Committee asked that consideration be given to publishing any alternative budget immediately after approval by the Section 151 officer.
Following consideration by the Committee, Councillor Power summarised the proposed recommendations for amendments to the Constitution as set out below:
a) Part 1.2 – Definition of Informal Working Groups to be included.
b) Part 1.2 – consideration to be given to changing the wording in the introductory sentence from “may be” to “will be”.
c) Part 4.4 – Paragraph 22.5 – consideration to be given to reviewing the use of exempt definition.
d) Article 4 – para. 4.06 (d) to be redrafted to improve readability.
e) Pages 217 -220 of agenda pack (the Budget Council meeting procedure) to be deleted.
f) The proposed start time of 6.30pm for Full Council meetings to be reviewed in due course.
g) Part 4.1 – para. 16 – consideration to be given to using the same process for members of the public questions as Councillor questions for expediency.
h) Part 4.1 – para. 20.5 – consideration to be given to publication of the alternative budget to be immediately after approval of the Section 151 Officer.
The Committee also noted the following points:
i) The revised constitution including proposed amendments from the Audit and Governance Committee would be submitted to Council on 30 November with the recommendation that it comes into force from 1 January 2024. It was agreed that the revised constitution be considered by a meeting of the CWP prior to being submitted to Council.
j) It was noted that work on adopting the LGA Model Code of Conduct would commence in the new year including meetings of the CWP.
k) Noting that once officially published, the revised constitution would include improvements to its functionality including hyperlinks and “intelligent” indexing.
RESOLVED:
1. That the proposed amendments set out in bold in a) to h) above be reported to Council on 30 November 2023.
2. That points outlined in paragraphs i) to k) above be noted and implemented as appropriate.
At the invitation of the Chairperson, Councillors Wallace, Read, Brook and Horrill addressed the meeting as summarised briefly below.
Councillor Wallace
He spoke as a member of the CWP which he believed had adopted a positive approach and achieved consensus about a great deal of the constitution. He expressed concern about the frequency of full Council meetings and in particular the recent long gap due to a Council meeting being cancelled. He welcomed the proposal to include feedback from Councillors on outside bodies to Council meetings and the clarification of the procedure regarding member and public participation at Cabinet meetings. In general, he hoped that the amendments proposed would improve the operation of the Constitution in practice.
Councillor Horrill
She welcomed the opportunity of being a member of the CWP and endorsed the commitment to providing a briefing session to aid understanding of the Constitution by both councillors and officers. She welcomed the proposals set out in paragraphs 12.6 and 12.18 of the report. She raised three questions/points – a) Queried whether Article 14 required updating to reflect that contracts under £10k should be recorded in writing; b) Expressed disappointment regarding that a date for completion was not included in paragraph 14.2 of the report; c) Sought assurance that the version of the amended Constitution to be presented to Council would be corrected to remove typographical mistakes and incorrect formatting.
Councillor Read
With regard to the West of Waterlooville Forum he believed the Constitution should stipulate that meetings were held in person as he considered virtual meetings excluded some members of the public. He emphasised that Forum covered a cross-boundary area and so was different to the other two development fora. He also requested that the Winchester membership be comprised of councillors from those wards covered by the development area. With regard to the Joint West of Waterlooville MDA Planning Committee, he expressed concern that no meetings had been held in the previous three years with all decisions being taken by officers under their delegated powers. He believed that this was despite the parish council requesting that a decision be made by the joint committee on regular occasions.
Councillor Brook
She supported the comments made by Councillor Read. As chairperson of Scrutiny Committee, she welcomed the proposal for the Monitoring Officer to use her discretion as to which committee was appropriate for pre-scrutiny consideration. She believed it was essential that key decisions were subject to pre-scrutiny.
The Monitoring Officer responded to the comments made regarding the Joint West of Waterlooville MDA Planning Committee confirming that the information she had been given by officers was different to that presented by Councillor Read. She said she would request further clarification from officers regarding the officer delegations exercised. As there appeared to remain a degree of uncertainty on this matter, Councillor Power suggested that Councillor Brook forward the relevant minutes of the parish council so it could be examined further.
The Monitoring Officer responded to other comments made by councillors and during the public participation period above. She confirmed that use of informal working groups was standard procedure widely adopted by local authorities and legally permitted. She agreed that a definition of an informal working group could be included in the amended Constitution.
With regard to work on the new model code of conduct, she confirmed that this would commence with the CWP in the new year.
The Committee then considered the contents of the amended Constitution in detail and the following points were raised and responded to by the Monitoring Officer and the Corporate Head of Finance. In addition, the Cabinet Member for Community and Engagement and the Cabinet Member for Finance and Performance also responded where appropriate.
a) The proposal that a recommended time limit (but not a guillotine) of three hours for council meetings be introduced. However, the majority of the CWP had not supported this proposal but had approved the suggestion that full Council meetings start at the earlier time of 6.30pm.
b) The use of the word “may” rather than “will” in the first sentence of Part 1.2. The Monitoring Officer explained the wording was from the Model Constitution however it was agreed amendment be considered further.
c) Part 4.4, paragraph 22.5 – clarification was requested on the use of the exempt definition and councillors access to exempt information.
d) The practical operation by the Monitoring Officer of the new wording proposed by the CWP in Article 7 in connection with the Forward Plan. Members believed that the 28 days’ notice provided in the current forward plan might not be sufficient for other committees to plan their work programme. However, it was suggested this could be addressed outside of changes to the Constitution, for example by provision of clearer work programmes and further consideration of the scheduling of meetings.
e) Clarification of the different status of the Winchester Town Forum as a formal meeting with budget setting authority, whereas the three current development fora were informal meetings.
f) Confirmation that the operation of the Joint West of Waterlooville MDA Planning Committee would be considered further by officers following concerns raised. However, no changes to the constitution as drafted were required.
g) Confirmation that the full proposed Budget Council meeting procedure would not be included in the recommended amendments to the constitution.
h) The Monitoring Officer confirmed that full Council meetings were only cancelled due to a lack of business in exceptional circumstances. Some concern was expressed about the long period of time between some full Council meetings. It was emphasised that both public and councillors had the right to speak at other meetings, including Cabinet.
i) A request that consideration be given to using the same process for members of the public questions as councillor questions.
j) There was lengthy discussion regarding the process for submitting an alternative budget and the time available for this to be prepared by councillors. The Monitoring Officer emphasised that the budget proposals were submitted for consideration by both the Scrutiny Committee and Cabinet several weeks prior to consideration at full Council. The Corporate Head of Finance confirmed that as Section 151 officer, she must be satisfied that the alternative budget met the statutory requirements and was deliverable within sufficient time to allow for 6 clear days prior to the budget meeting. The Committee asked that consideration be given to publishing any alternative budget immediately after approval by the Section 151 officer.
Following consideration by the Committee, Councillor Power summarised the proposed recommendations for amendments to the Constitution as set out below:
a) Part 1.2 – Definition of Informal Working Groups to be included.
b) Part 1.2 – consideration to be given to changing the wording in the introductory sentence from “may be” to “will be”.
c) Part 4.4 – Paragraph 22.5 – consideration to be given to reviewing the use of exempt definition.
d) Article 4 – para. 4.06 (d) to be redrafted to improve readability.
e) Pages 217 -220 of agenda pack (the Budget Council meeting procedure) to be deleted.
f) The proposed start time of 6.30pm for Full Council meetings to be reviewed in due course.
g) Part 4.1 – para. 16 – consideration to be given to using the same process for members of the public questions as Councillor questions for expediency.
h) Part 4.1 – para. 20.5 – consideration to be given to publication of the alternative budget to be immediately after approval of the Section 151 Officer.
The Committee also noted the following points:
i) The revised constitution including proposed amendments from the Audit and Governance Committee would be submitted to Council on 30 November with the recommendation that it comes into force from 1 January 2024. It was agreed that the revised constitution be considered by a meeting of the CWP prior to being submitted to Council.
j) It was noted that work on adopting the LGA Model Code of Conduct would commence in the new year including meetings of the CWP.
k) Noting that once officially published, the revised constitution would include improvements to its functionality including hyperlinks and “intelligent” indexing.
RESOLVED:
1. That the proposed amendments set out in bold in a) to h) above be reported to Council on 30 November 2023.
2. That points outlined in paragraphs i) to k) above be noted and implemented as appropriate.
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